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GeorgeK
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Post Disinformation about DNS attacks

ICANN has posted a *cough* "factsheet" *cough* on the recent DNS attacks, see:

http://blog.icann.org/?p=37
http://www.icann.org/announcements/...ack-08mar07.pdf

The timing of the report is perfect, as I just posted:

http://gnso.icann.org/mailing-lists...a/msg06114.html

Everytime I see these reports of "attacks", my wallet starts to tingle, as the scaremongering seems to always result in later demands for "more money".

I'll take issue with 1 specific example of disinformation. On page 2, it says "In theory, if even one of the 13 root servers is up and running, then the Internet will continue to run unhindered as the directory will still be visible to the network."

This is very misleading. Indeed, due to caching, the internet can function with only minor hiccups if ZERO root servers are up and running. The root zone file is very tiny. You can see a copy of it at:

http://www.internic.net/zones/root.zone

How long did that file take to load? Not long, since it is only 68 KBytes in size! And, if you ignore all the minor banana republic countries and TLDs, there really is much less "important" information in that 68 KByte file (i.e. due to Zipf's law, see:

http://nms.lcs.mit.edu/papers/dns-ton2002.pdf
http://www.cs.cornell.edu/people/eg...ns-prenanog.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zipf's_law

i.e. for most people, .com, .net, .org, .gov, and a few major ccTLDs matter most).

What's really important is what happens when the "cache" is stale (i.e. the time-to-live (TTL) of the data has expired). Using a telephone book analogy, the "TTL" is related to "how often you should check to make sure that a phone number has changed." DNS itself can be considered like a hierarchical directory of phonebooks, i.e. the root is the directory of addresses of where to find the white pages for each country (or city), all the way down to the local city phonebook which is typically published once per year.

Of course, with DNS, the "TTL" is typically a lot less than the 1 year of physical phonebooks. However, this notion that the internet "breaks" if zero root servers are available is like saying that the telephone system will break if you don't get a copy of this year's phonebook.

An expired cache is similar to using the 2006 phonebook, instead of the current 2007. If you look up my phone number in 2006's phonebook, or even 2005's whitepages, you'll be fine, as the number is the same as it for me in 2007. For a few people, though, the number will be incorrect. In a DNS context, thus, having expired cache data need not be greatly costly. For example, the IP address for ICANN's website has been the same for the past 2 years:

http://whois.domaintools.com/icann.org

IP History: 1 change. Using 1 unique IP address in 2 years.

I suspect you'll find ICANN's website at 192.0.34.163 tomorrow, and the day after that too...these things don't change very often.

For its nameservers: NS History: 6 changes. Using 3 unique name servers in 6 years.

Our pals at VeriSign:

http://whois.domaintools.com/verisign.com

IP History: 1 change. Using 1 unique IP address in 2 years
NS History: 2 changes. Using 2 unique name servers in 5 years.

So, what *really* matters is how often the data in the root zone file changes. That will determine how much damage occurs if a stale cache is used (i.e. like the damage that would occur if you used 2006's phonebook instead of 2007's). I suspect most TLD operators are not constantly renumbering their networks, so the root zone file should be changing very slowly over time, and ICANN should provide data to prove otherwise. Indeed, if the root zone was static, and non changing, we'd have no need for root zone servers at all. Since memory and hard disks are cheap these days, caching is *very* cheap (68 KB is trivial), indeed one can have a basically infinite cache (or multi-Gigabytes at the very least).

The 2nd prong is distribution of the root zone file. Back in the early days of the internet, there was no BitTorrent. There was no RSS. There is no reason that the 68 KB file at the heart of the internet could not be distributed to the biggest ISPs using alternative measures. e.g. do you really think that AOL couldn't get a copy of the 68 KB root zone file (to serve its 20 million users) through some "push" mechanism like RSS or even email, or "pull" methods like FTP or BitTorrent? Heck, you can even have a dialup modem distribute the 68 KB file to AOL just like the Fidonet BBS days of the 1980's. The same goes for other big ISPs. The reliability of those torrent networks in serving up movies and music show that they're highly scalable and resilient to attacks (if they were easily attacked, I assume the MPAA and RIAA would have taken them down by now). How difficult would it be to serve up 68 KB files (signed appropriately, to ensure authenticity) to thousands, if not millions of users? Too trivial to ponder, if there's a will to do so. What percentage of the internet worldwide users would be represented by the top 1000 ISPs? I suspect more than half, and if not, it wouldn't be hard to scale this to the top 10,000 or 100,000. How many millions of people receive multi-megabyte Windows or Mac operating system security updates daily, without incident?

Instead of fear-mongering and trying to justify its exploding $30+ million annual budget:

http://gnso.icann.org/mailing-lists...a/msg06091.html

with pretty graphs, ICANN should talk about real solutions. Real solutions don't put caviar on the table for lazy bureaucrats, but they definitely benefit the public through lower costs and greater reliability.

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Old Post 03-08-2007 10:35 PM
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Another thing to keep in mind is that it's deceiving to say they are 13 root servers. From the perspective of "IP Addresses" there are 13 root servers, however the low level routing of the internet is used to replacate the F (?) root server os it's IP exists in multiple geographic locations. The end result is that there are *FAR* more that just 13 root servers.

It's also on interest to note that the last time I looked only the A and B root servers service the .MIL TLD = US military, and I beleive that's also true for .GOV. So if ICANN's claim is true than the US military and goverment are doing an incompetent job with their own infrastructure = You only have to kill 2 of the 13 root servers to kill .MIL and .GOV ...

Also note the root servers do *NOTHING* but refer the query to the TLD server for that domain name -

I beleive .ORG, .INFO, and .MOBI only run on 5 TLD servers using Ultra DNS. UltraDNS also provide commercial DNS services to major web sites and to registries:

http://www.neustarultraservices.biz.../customers.html

With Aflias' 2 millions regs that is $12 million in income to run the entire .INFO registry and DNS and ICANN uses it's $500,000 to have the ROOT servers simply point to UltraDNS where *AFILIAS* pays *ULTRADNS* to provide the DNS results *NOT* the Root Servers ...

Also note the ROOT servers provide *ALL* TLD redirection to the TLD DNS servers, that means that *ALL* TLD's must support it inluding those TLD *NOT* under ICANN such as the .US TLD which you'll note is also owned by the same company that now owns UltraDNS ....

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Old Post 03-08-2007 11:11 PM
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GeorgeK
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Absolutely correct, with anycast, there are a lot more than 13 physical servers, and they only serve up a 68 KB file for the TLD results. Caching could easily handle any disruption to them.

Heck, even the largest TLD zone file, .com, is measured in the Gigabyte range -- MUCH smaller if you consider compression, and text compresses extremely well. One could cache the entire .com zone file on an iPod shuffle, and have lots of space leftover to listen to some good music.

My wallet continues to tingle. Hopefully everyone isn't bamboozled by the scaremongering.

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Old Post 03-08-2007 11:17 PM
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ILikeInfo
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quote:
Originally posted by GeorgeK
and they only serve up a 68 KB file for the TLD results.


Need to dig into that a little more ....

DNS is implemented 2 ways; UDP and TCP.

UDP provide MUCH higher performance BUT it allows spoofing read: DOS and DDOS attacks. The *MAXIMUM* allowed DNS return result with UDP is 512 BYTES. While current systems allow longer results a lot of equipment still only supports 512 bytes thus that is still considered the practical limit. Also note that most all device have an "MTU" (Maximum Transmission Unit) of 1500 BYTES so in order to preserve UDP DNS performance it is *NOT POSSIBLE* to return more than 1500 bytes since the result *MUST* then be split across multiple packets which DNS's compression algoritm does NOT support -- That's right, DNS queries and responses use a very effective form of compression to stuff a lot into those 512 bytes. Basically all the TEXT in the DNS query/response only appears once and the packets then reuse that text using a simple pointer rather than filling up the packet with redundent copies of it.

TCP provides security since spoofing is not possible *BUT* TCP is still suseptable to attacks such as connection overloading (impossible to do to UDP), as well as SYN attacks / guessing, etc. So for TCP DNS performance is *GREATLY* reduced since you have to actually form a connection *BEFORE* you can make a query and then you are required to tear down the connection after the query to keep from overloading the server. Since a DNS query is virtually NEVER done a single query (typically 3 or 4 queries to multiple servers) the time to resolve a domain using TCP is an order of magnitude longer than using UDP .... Which is why with all it's faults everyone still implements UDP DNS servers.


So, I've no freeking clue how anyone can even present the idea of a 68K DNS response, but admitedly I did not read the above links ... I've also no clue why anybody *EXCEPT* .TEL would want a reponse of that size. I *DO* see why .TEL would want to increase the size of the response given how much information they would want to shove into a DNS server. So if this is being done for the .TEL TLD then why should the rest of us be paying for it as I see no other reason for such an increase and overall performance degredation by forcing a switch to TCP instead of UDP ....

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GeorgeK
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The root zone servers don't send the entire 68K zone file for each request. When you ask for .com, they give you just the .com nameservers (i.e. those managed by VeriSign). When you ask for .ca, they give you only the .ca nameservers managed by CIRA (www.cira.ca). etc. for all TLDs. The entire database that they manage, though, of all the possible TLDs and nameservers is 68KB.

It's like calling 411, and asking for John Smith's phone number. In this case, though, the phone book that the operator users (or the phone database) is a LOT bigger than the puny zone file.

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Old Post 03-08-2007 11:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by GeorgeK
The entire database that they manage, though, of all the possible TLDs and nameservers is 68KB.


Ah, gotcha, makes perfect sense.

I have an even better idea then. Since that file is so tiny lets just have them publish it via FTP and HTTP download.

*ALL* current DNS servers have such a file now to define the Root Servers, replacing that file with the above noted 68K file is no big deal. That way we can save ICANN/Verisign a lot of money by eliminating the Root Servers entirely, and that query step in order to increase performance, and eliminate the "isolated" attack points.

(and yes, you know where I'm going and I think you were headed there to with your first post )

I beleive this is identical to a "zone transfer" of the "." top level.

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Old Post 03-08-2007 11:54 PM
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GeorgeK
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Yep, yep, that's what I mentioned in my first post, FTP, HTTP, RSS, BitTorrent, email, dialup, whatever suits your fancy. When the root servers are up, one would naturally use the "live" data, but if for some reason they all went down, one could have a local cached copy until they were back up.

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Old Post 03-09-2007 12:09 AM
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In theory the Root Server should right now this very second support that and all the DNS servers which use the Root servers should support is now are well via the simple "Zone Transfer" command.

Zone Transfers are exactly how this information gets passed so nothing need be invented or created, it's all here now.

I have now way to easily check but somehow I'm betting the root servers have that feature disabled.

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Old Post 03-09-2007 12:13 AM
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GeorgeK
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> http://blog.icann.org/?p=37

Oh, ICANN sure knows how to respond to criticism....when I tried to respond to Kieren's comment about some "conspiracy" on their blog, I get:

"Sorry, but your comment has been flagged by the spam filter running on this blog: this might be an error, in which case all apologies. Your comment will be presented to the blog admin who will be able to restore it immediately.
You may want to contact the blog admin via e-mail to notify him."

haha Pathetic. I suppose if I wrote a glowing "ICANN is great, keep up the good work", it would not be labelled "spam".

My "censored" comments were:

--- start of comments ----
What are you talking about, Kieren? I talked about coming price increases. "Ill defined conspiracy about control of the root zone" is indeed VERY ill-defined -- it is UNDEFINED, sheesh. I've never disputed ICANN's control of the root zone.

As to scaremongering to justify price increases or other things people want, if you've not seen it before, you've not been watching closely enough. I gave the example of WLS earlier. Let's see, you actually wrote an article about this in The Register in 2002:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/0...monopoly_alert/

where in an aside you wrote "And, that VeriSign is still under investigation for using underhand <b>scare tactics</b> to force people to renew domains with itself over competitors." That's your example of VeriSign's use of scare tactics (my emphasis was added). Scare tactics are common in this industry, from suggesting people need "Domain Privacy", to the games played by those higher in the food chain.

Don't be so naive to think that these "attacks" aren't going to be used at some later date (sooner, rather than later) to attempt to justify more money, ultimately from consumers, while those employing the scare tactics laugh all the way to the bank. Scare tactics were used by registries to justify "presumptive renewal", i.e. essentially permanent ownership of their TLDs. How many billions of dollars did consumers lose due to that scare mongering, that somehow the world would explode if we didn't have competitive tendering of the gTLD operations?

When the 7% .com and 10% .net/info/biz/org price increases come along, "higher registry costs due to DDOS attacks" will most certainly be their main argument.

If you want to write another factsheet, why don't you focus on providing some data as to the frequency and nature of root zone file changes, as mentioned in other comments? Or, heaven forbid, try to get some dollar figures to see how much DDOS attacks are costing -- webhosting companies get DDOS attacks everyday, yet I see the price of webhosting FALLING, not rising, unlike domain names. I'm sure GoDaddy or other registrars who offer webhosting can educate you. Indeed, many webhosts offer DDOS protection at very low if not as a free add-on these days, due to the economies of scale and rapidly falling technology costs they've seen for anti-DDOS solutions.
----- end of comments -----

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Old Post 03-09-2007 01:03 AM
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GeorgeK
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ICANN just reached another new low. They entirely removed my past comments!

I was about to reply to John Crain's comments with:

---- start of new comment ------
[One of my past comments (replying to Kieren) was censored (labelled as "spam") and still hasn't appeared yet, so who knows if this one will appear either....]

John: I didn't claim that the root zone changes once a month -- I was doing a hypothetical, i.e. if the root zone had last changed X days ago, but one's cache was recently updated Y days ago, and Y was less than X, then the results from using the cached copy would be 100% identical as the "live" copy, even if we weren't within the actual TTL specified by the zone file. Sorry if I confused anyone by using made up numbers, instead of "X" and "Y".

I don't get paid to compile zone file diffs (if some researcher or staffer has the time, be my guest), but it should be fairly evident that most major TLD operators would not be changing their nameservers each and every 12 hours.....if they are, they shouldn't be running that TLD. One can use domaintools.com to see how often nameserver changes are done by corporate websites (I already gave examples for icann.org and verisign.com -- as a third, http://whois.domaintools.com/godaddy.com reveals that GoDaddy had 2 unique nameservers in the past 3 years), i.e. 2nd level, below the TLDs, and I'm confident the 1st level (i.e. the TLDs themselves, that appear in the root zone file) change even less. It would be an odd network indeed if things changed more frequently as we moved UP the hierarchical DNS tree -- that's the opposite of stability. The most frequent changes will be at the bottom levels, not the top.

I'm glad we agree on caching. Of course if one root server is operating, the cached data can be updated. But, suppose they're all down? Is it the end of the world? Probably not, since if the stale cache was used (i.e. like using a 2004 phonebook, instead of a 2007 phonebook), the odds are pretty good that you'll likely still reach the person at the published number.

If BitTorrent, RSS, FTP, or other technologies are used, one could make the system even more resilient. e.g. one can imaging a version of bind or similar software that is caching the root that has pseudocode like:

"if all root servers are down, try to get fresher copy via FTP; if FTP fails, try HTTP; if HTTP fails, try BitTorrent, if BitTorrent fails (then the internet is probably really messed up!), try dialing the secret phone number to a hypothetical dialup system, given only to big ISPs; if the dialup fails, keep trying and notify administrator). Indeed, if the diffs were small enough, one could even publish them in newspapers (like the WSJ).
--- end of new comment -----

when that was became labelled "spam" too, and I noticed all prior comments were removed.

What a joke.

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Old Post 03-09-2007 02:54 AM
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I got into a similar "symantic debate" with the folks that were implementing China's IDN TLD without permission of ICANN.

One of the problems is what "Root Zone" actually means.

The end result is a lack of clear definition is that, if I want to, I can spin the argument any way I want to. When I read your post I can *EASILY* see a lot of confusion just I had got confused by my quick read of your first post. In fact bringing up "GoDaddy" in your post above causes my head to spin since a registar has no place in any such discussion, and in fact that's part of the point of the way the root servers are designed.

Bottom line is the word "root" is actually very ambigious without delaring which root.

Your "68K byte" comment is for the "." zone file which is the very first zone file for the entire internet. Then each TLD server has a zone file, and each registry call *THEIR* file "root" since it's the beginning of the internet *FOR THEM*. In fact DomainState.COM could call it's own DNS "root" for this web site and any and all resources that are avialable.

In fact if you try:

http://domainstate.com.

notice the rightmost ".", and:

http://domainstate.com./showthread....&threadid=74791

It works because from a purest point of view that "." would actually be required in order to find "com" and then "domain state".

So in my debate I quickly learned to watch out using the word "root".

FWIW

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Looks like the comments have been uncensored (for now, at least). I see 8 comments now, instead of 3 a couple of minutes ago.

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Old Post 03-09-2007 03:13 AM
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Oh, and from what I've seen 2 day TTL is standard at "." and at the TLD servers. So with respect to your above comments there clearly only needs to be 1 "zone transfer" every other day period.

Been this way for *YEARS*.

Also, since registries like .INFO use *COMMERCIALY* available DNS servers to zone their TLDs it means that you can truncate much of the resolution process and have the Registry in effect directly serve your DNS resource records = Domains Resolve WICKED fast and updates occur typically get published in under 2 minutes.

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