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DomainState.com - News & Views : Powered by vBulletin DomainState.com - News & Views > News > ICANN confirms: Tiered (.tv style) pricing would not be forbidden in .biz/info/org
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GeorgeK
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Nice to see NSI step up to the plate again:

http://onlinepressroom.net/networksolutions/
http://vocuspr.vocus.com/VocusPR30/...che=True&Merge=
http://about-networksolutions.com/NSTAC_Letter.pdf

"HERNDON, Va. – September 28, 2006 – Network Solutions today called on the National Security Telecommunications Advisory Committee (NSTAC) to review the proposed .com registry agreement between the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) and VeriSign, Inc. Network Solutions asked NSTAC, which provides advice to the President on communications issues related to national security and emergency preparedness, to immediately assess the critical security concerns that the .com registry proposal poses for the Internet."

However, one problem is that VeriSign's CEO Stratton Sclavos is a member of NSTAC:

http://investor.verisign.com/management.cfm

"He also sits on the President's National Security Telecommunications Advisory Committee (NSTAC)....."

http://www.ncs.gov/nstac/nstac_members.html

Hopefully the other members are not swayed by Sclavos on this important issue.

While not directly related to .biz/info/org, I don't think the ICANN Board would dare to approve the proposed .biz/info/org deals while the .com agreement is still outstanding and unapproved by the DoC. This should delay things further.

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Old Post 09-29-2006 03:29 AM
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DomeBase
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Thanks for the link, George.

The following quote is very apt -- not only honing in on the "price increases for a monopolist" issue, but also hitting back on the security issue which VeriSign emphasized during the Senate hearing.

"The proposed agreement essentially awards VeriSign an unregulated and perpetual monopoly over the operation of the .com Top Level Domain (TLD) registry, but is virtually silent on the issue of Internet security,” -- http://onlinepressroom.net/networksolutions

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Old Post 09-29-2006 03:05 PM
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GeorgeK
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Minutes of the September 25th ICANN Board meeting have now been posted:

http://www.icann.org/minutes/prelim-report-25sep06.htm
http://www.icann.org/minutes/secret...ice-27sep06.htm

They ask that the registries respond to the public comments.

In addition, the GNSO Council voted to ask that the Board make no decision on the contracts until AFTER the next public meeting in Sao Paolo (December 2006):

http://gnso.icann.org/mailing-lists...l/msg02870.html

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Old Post 09-29-2006 03:49 PM
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quote:
"John Jeffrey presented the current status of negotiations and the board engaged in an active discussion regarding... the comments regarding requests for limitations on price increases during renewal, as opposed to differential pricing for individual registrations. After some Board level discussion on these points, various board members expressed concerns about whether the issues raised in the public comments had been appropriately responded to by the registries.

The Board discussed a "sense of the board" that additional information was required for the Board to fully consider the agreements, and the Board specifically expressed a desire to see communications from each of the registries responding to the public comments that had been received during the public comment period. The Board agreed that if they received the responses before October 10th, that they would discuss the pending agreements again during their next scheduled board meeting on 18 October 2006. The Secretary was instructed to provide notice to each of the registries regarding the Board's request for additional information."


http://www.icann.org/minutes/prelim-report-25sep06.htm

Bolding added.

I think that the Board expressing concerns and requesting additional information are very good signs. On the downside -- as others have noted, there may be some danger in framing the debate as one between limitations on price increases vs. unlimited price increases -- because with end points like that a "compromise" could actually still give away way too much. Also, seeking additional info only from registries and not from more objective sources could be limiting. However, rather than turn into a chronic grumbler and complainer, I think that overall this looks encouraging. Certainly, anyway, this was no rubber stamp.

We will be watching what happens.

Last edited by DomeBase on 09-29-2006 at 04:17 PM

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Old Post 09-29-2006 04:06 PM
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Fundraiser
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A letter from PIR (dot org) to ICANN dated October 10 addresses the issue of variable pricing - essentially that they will specifically exclude it from the the contract unless any other current or future gTLDs are permitted to have variable pricing for active domain registrations.

http://www.pir.org/PDFs/John_Jeffrey_Ltr.pdf

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Old Post 10-13-2006 01:19 AM
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GeorgeK
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I noitced that letter earlier (was waiting for all three to get posted). I don't like the proposed wording by PIR.

"the extent a variable pricing model for active Registered Names has been implemented in any other new or existing gTLD"

means that if .mobi (who has unlimited ability to change its pricing methods) does it, then .org could too. No way, Jose.

Stronger wording would be to only allow it if .com was allowed to do it, not if *any* gTLD does it. You could tell crafty lawyers probably wrote PIR's letter.

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Old Post 10-13-2006 01:24 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by GeorgeK
You could tell crafty lawyers probably wrote PIR's letter.
I lost confidence in PIR a few month ago when I discovered that they went against their own charter for their advisory panel which specifically states it should consist of 21 members representing a broad and geographically diverse spectrum of the non-commercial community and that no two people from the same non-commercial organization can sit on the panel. Then they put two people from grassroots.org on the panel at the same time earlier this year. I wrote to them to tell them about it thinking surely they did not realize the two people served on the board of the same nonprofit. A lawyer from PIR wrote back to ask me why I cared and that they did not see a problem with it. Lack of integrity and loss of credibility seems to be a problem from my perspective.

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Old Post 10-13-2006 01:59 AM
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GeorgeK
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You're absolutely right, Fundraiser. According to their charter:

http://www.pir.org/PDFs/pir_ac_charter.pdf

Section 3:

" No two members of the Council will be from the same non-commercial organization."

Michael Mann and Angela Stuber are both from Grassroots.org:

http://www.pir.org/AboutPIR/CouncilMembers.aspx

I'll raise this on the GNSO GA mailing list.

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Old Post 10-13-2006 04:07 AM
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GeorgeK
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ICANN has now posted the responses of the .biz/info/org registry operators at:

http://www.icann.org/announcements/...t-1-12oct06.htm

(and also the response of .asia, although only 3 people responded to the .asia issue, at http://www.icann.org/announcements/...ent-28jul06.htm )

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Old Post 10-13-2006 04:25 AM
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GeorgeK
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I've just completed my initial review of their comments, and submitted the following response to the ICANN mailing lists:

--------- my response begins -------
SUBJECT: Responses by .biz/info/org Registry Operators are Unacceptable

Hello,

ICANN has posted the responses of the .biz, .info and .org registries regarding the proposed new contracts at:

http://www.icann.org/announcements/...t-1-12oct06.htm

They are unacceptable, and the proposed contracts should continue to be rejected.

1) Tiered/Differential pricing -- Each of the registries proposes that new language be added to the contracts that would continue to leave in a big loophole to implement differential pricing. In particular, they would allow it:

"to the extent a variable pricing model for active Registered Names has been implemented in any other new or existing gTLD"

(effectively the equivalent language in all 3 proposed revisions)

This is an enormous loophole. Indeed, it's a loophole that may *ALREADY* have been triggered, or be able to be triggered due to existing contracts for newer gTLDs that don't have any theoretical restrictions on pricing (e.g. it might be allowed in .asia or .mobi, where more pricing policy discretion was given to the registry operators). All it would take is *1* new gTLD to introduce differential pricing, and these three registries would be permitted to do the same. And of course by logical progression, VeriSign would want the same for .com/net.

The big difference is that registrants in any new gTLD that permitted diffferential pricing knew this ex ante. Here, in the legacy .biz/info/org agreements, the registry operators want to change the rules for registrants ex post.

It's funny, because when this was first brought up, some registries were suggesting that differential pricing was something that they didn't even think was permitted in their first drafted contracts:

http://gnso.icann.org/mailing-lists...a/msg04293.html

"AGAIN, I AM NOT SURE WHERE YOU GET THE PERCEPTION THAT WE ARE ABLE
TO CHARGE DIFFERENT PRICES FOR DIFFERENT DOMAIN NAMES."

And argued that they couldn't get away with raising prices:

http://gnso.icann.org/mailing-lists...a/msg04292.html

"Although you insinuate that we could raise prices, do you honestly believe that we could really get away with raising prices and not suffer a huge loss in the demand for our services? We operate in a real economic market and not in a theoretical hypothetical world. In other
words, do you really think .BIZ could get away with raising prices above that for a .com domain name and survive? We do not. We believe that if we were to raise prices without a corresponding increase in .com prices, registrants would switch from .BIZ to .com or .net in a heartbeat."

In other words, the registries "played dumb". In their new comments, they continue to "play dumb". However, I believe they are much smarter than that.

What matters is not this rhetoric of the registries about "Oh, we'd never be able to raise prices", or that "we'd never do differential pricing". What matters is what's in the actual contracts. The contracts propose removing price caps. Registries do not need price caps to be removed if they plan to REDUCE prices --- they only need price caps to be removed in order to RAISE prices. And though they say they don't want differential pricing, their proposed contracts say if *ANY* other gTLD registry somehow gets it, then we want it too! Sheesh. How stupid do these registry operators think that ICANN and the public are?

Given the poorly scrutinized contracts for .mobi, .cat, .tel, .asia, .eu, etc., where differential pricing might be introduced one day, even on a limited basis, that springs the trap on .biz/info/org holders under the proposed new contract language.

It's clear even stronger language is needed than that proposed by these registry operators, that gives greater certainty to helpless registrants. If indeed these registry operators believe that they can never price higher than .com, perhaps one simple solution is to put in the identical caps as exist on .com. With identical caps to .com, nothing would prevent the registry operators from lowering the prices to registrants below those caps, if that is their noble intention. If instead it's their evil intention to raise prices, they would be thwarted.

2) PDP-FEB06 - None of the registries wants to wait until PDP-Feb06. Of course, that's unacceptable. The renegotiation of their contracts was far in advance of their expiration, and attempted to preclude competitive tenders by other prospective registry operators. Registries are simply contractors. They're in no position to dictate timelines to ICANN and to the public it represents that only benefit themselves. Limiting the debate and further scrutiny of their contracts to find other flaws is not in the public interest.

The last group that gave ICANN an ultimatum to make a decision on a proposed contract on a specific date was ICM Registry, for .xxx. These registry operators should suffer the same fate, if a decision on October 18th is demanded --- the Board should simply reject the proposed contracts, period. The registry operators can then serve out the remainder of their contracts, and then be subject to the renewal terms contained therein, including the provisions from competing bids by other prospective registry operators for .biz/info/org. Indeed, it is in the public's interest that ICANN determine whether other prospective registry operators might serve registrants of .biz/info/org more cost effectively and/or with better service. Without a public tender or "expression of interest" or similar process, ICANN is flying blindly and by the seat of its pants, without any information. To make informed decisions, one needs information, and these incumbent registries are proposing to deny ICANN the opportunity to gather that information. It would seem to me that the incumbent registry operators are scared that competitors might emerge from that process, competitors who would replace them, and thus they are trying to lock-in ICANN to long-term (indeed perpetual) bad deals for consumers.

3) Presumptive Renewal: As discussed above, presumptive renewal should not be a part of any new contracts. It's no surprise that all of the registry operators wanted it. They say they "need" it, in order to invest in their businesses.

Yet, somehow they were able to submit applications to run .biz/info/org initially that did not give them presumptive renewal. Presumptive renewal does not exist in most government contracts, or other business contracts. They were aware of this from the beginning. ICANN will have no trouble finding alternate registry operators who are willing to bid on operation of the .biz/info/org registries for fixed terms. Indeed, I imagine these same registry operators, and perhaps VeriSign, DENIC, Nominet, and others would be aggressively bidding at even lower prices than exist today for fixed term new deals. This would benefit consumers.

One only need look at the example of our friends at Neustar, who agreed to LOWER their telephone database management pricing, in exchange for a contract extension:

http://gnso.icann.org/mailing-lists...a/msg04807.html

"The contracts have been extended by 48 months to June 2015. Pricing remains unchanged at $1.05 through the rest of the year, the company said, and in 2007 transactions will cost 91 cents each regardless of volume. Beginning in 2008 until the contract expires, transaction rates will range from 95 cents to 75 cents depending on volume."

""You can't complete a telephone call in the U.S. without using NeuStar," Ganek says. "We cannot charge monopoly rents; we have to share the benefits of fast volume growth with our industry?"

As I wrote before, it is perfectly consistent to have renewals of contracts with price cuts, and allow the registry operators to have enough money to invest in infrastructure, yet share the benefits of economies of scale with consumers. ICANN's feeble negotiators seem to have ignored this economic reality, because they fall for the FUD spread by incumbent registries.

You can't fault registry operators for trying to get a price increase, and lock out competitors -- that's in the interest of their shareholders. But, ICANN should see through their smokescreen, and be negotiating price cuts. There's no "presumptive renewal" for Neustar in these telephoone deals, either.

How can Neustar, and the other registry operators, argue that they require presumptive renewal, when they are signing very similar technological deals like telephone database management that DO NOT CONTAIN PRESUMPTIVE RENEWAL? (and certainly differential pricing doesn't exist for telephone number management)

In conclusion, one must ask whether the registry operators think that ICANN, its Board, and the public are that stupid, to not see that price decreases, price caps, uniform pricing and fixed-length contracts are the norm? While one must applaud the registries for trying to take advantage of the likely inexperienced and inept ICANN staffers who think these contracts are somehow acceptable, anyone with an iota of business experience can see that these are terrible deals for the public.

In the wise words of Vint Cerf,

http://www.infoworld.com/article/06....html?BROADBAND

"What's worse than a regulated monopoly? The answer is, an unregulated monopoly."

By approving these proposed contracts, ICANN would be creating new unregulated monopolies, to the detriment of the public. ICANN's Board hopefully has the business acumen and experience to reject these proposed contracts, and ensure that any new proposed contracts reflect price decreases, price caps that protect consumers, uniform pricing, and fixed-length contracts.

Sincerely,

George Kirikos

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Old Post 10-13-2006 06:04 AM
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They are going to have a meeting on the 18th.

George, could these contracts still be approved at any time or would ICANN first post up amended contracts and allow comments from the public before approving any new contract?

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GeorgeK
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Yep, they can be approved at any time (although the Board would lose lots of legitimacy if they did). That hasn't stopped the Board before, though (e.g. approving bad .net agreement with VeriSign).

Unlike .com, which must be approved by the DoC, .biz/info/org and other TLDs do not need to be approved by the Department of Commerce or any other agency. That's why ICANN's incompetence goes unchecked for these other TLDs, and then creates new precedents that VeriSign can use on .com.

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Old Post 10-13-2006 03:09 PM
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(some overlap with George's post)

"ICANN Board Receives Responses to Request for Information by Registry Operators of .BIZ, .INFO and .ORG and Proposed Registry Operator of .ASIA"
12 October 2006 -- http://www.icann.org/announcements/...t-1-12oct06.htm

“We do not believe that tiered pricing, per se, should cause concern to the ICANN community” / “We are willing to include the following language in our agreement – ‘Registry Operator shall not impose any variable pricing model on renewal of any active .INFO domain name registration... restriction shall not apply… to the extent a variable pricing model for active domain names has been implemented in any other new or existing gTLD.’” -- Afilias, .INFO registry, October 10, 2006 -- http://www.icann.org/announcements/afilias-to-icann.pdf

“…to the extent a variable pricing model for active Registered Names has been implemented in any other new or existing gTLD, then different prices for such registrations may be charged.” / “The removal of price limitations in the proposed .ORG agreement is consistent with the new pattern established for registry agreements…” -- Public Interest Registry, .ORG registry, October 10, 2006 -- http://www.icann.org/announcements/...ann-10oct06.pdf

“NeuStar has been working with ICANN for the past 18 months… Negotiations were finalized in June 2006… “ / “Registry Operating shall not impose any variable pricing model on any active Registered Name… restriction shall not apply… to the extent a variable pricing model for active Registered Names has been implemented in any other new or existing gTLD.” / “ NeuStar’s agreement to pay significantly higher ICANN fees…” -- NeuStar. Inc., .BIZ registry, October 10, 2006 -- http://www.icann.org/announcements/...ann-10oct06.pdf

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GeorgeK
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Fundraiser: According to the message at:

http://gnso.icann.org/mailing-lists...a/msg05016.html

"Michael Mann has resigned from the Advisory Council". He still appears on PIR's website, though, at the time of this post, so I suggested that they update it accordingly, and apologize to you for not handling your initial inquiry more appropriately in the first place.

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Old Post 10-16-2006 07:17 PM
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Thanks for the update George. I appreciate your comments about an apology from them being owed but really it is not. I contacted PIR to help them identify a situation of which they might not have been aware. It was something I discovered through my work in the non-commercial sector as a consultant. It had nothing to do with domains, ICANN or registry agreements. However, my single throwaway comment here on a domain forum about my experience with PIR shows how powerful the Internet can be. Some guy from Canada starts a thread about business proposals that is read and contributed to by people from around the world and in a matter of days, my loosely related post is used to change what was considered to not be a problem by PIR into a reason to consider denying them the privilege and responsibility of managing the registry most closely aligned with the world's non-commercial sector. Unfortunately the post about Michael Mann resigning from the panel creates the impression that somehow he did something wrong when in fact it could have been taken care of by PIR privately months ago.

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