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  1. #46
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    A UDRP can not be considered as a sale.. forced or otherwise. If that was legally true then the owner would be able to claim the UDRP as a business expense and would infact also have to declare the sale as revenue, and as the sale would be infact selling for less than what it cost.. would be able to right the initial cost off..

    However this is not the case, the contract states the only two acceptable methods are sale or develop
    do you tango? or do you dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?

  2. #47
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    Oct 2002
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    10,988
    I feel like a little kid that his ballon has Popped
    "

  3. #48
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    Sorry about that Robert.. :-( my intention is only to ensure all the facts are there.
    do you tango? or do you dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?

  4. #49
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    Sep 2002
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    A UDRP can not be considered as a sale.. forced or otherwise. If that was legally true then the owner would be able to claim the UDRP as a business expense and would infact also have to declare the sale as revenue, and as the sale would be infact selling for less than what it cost.. would be able to right the initial cost off..
    Thinking out loud here: the udrp isn't a legal decision - its an arbitrated agreement that can be usurped by either party taking it to a real court, so in essence they do agree to sell for zero cost rather than take advantage of their rights in law.
    When using google for counts - use double quotes for usage counts for multiword terms and set "match type" to "exact" for all search volume lookups. Click here for more info

  5. #50
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    Apr 2005
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    You agree to abide by UDRP when you register your domain with an ICANN approved domain registry.

    A sale is a mutual agreement between 2 or more parties.. therefore a UDRP can never be classed as a sale. The meer fact that a user has chosen to contest the validity of the UDRP is proof enough that its not a mutually agreed sale.
    do you tango? or do you dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?

  6. #51
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    Sep 2002
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    You agree to abide by UDRP when you register your domain with an ICANN approved domain registry.
    Yes, and that makes it clear that they bow to the "real" courts:

    http://www.icann.org/dndr/udrp/policy.htm

    4 k: Availability of Court Proceedings. The mandatory administrative proceeding requirements set forth in Paragraph 4 shall not prevent either you or the complainant from submitting the dispute to a court of competent jurisdiction for independent resolution before such mandatory administrative proceeding is commenced or after such proceeding is concluded. If an Administrative Panel decides that your domain name registration should be canceled or transferred, we will wait ten (10) business days (as observed in the location of our principal office) after we are informed by the applicable Provider of the Administrative Panel's decision before implementing that decision. We will then implement the decision unless we have received from you during that ten (10) business day period official documentation (such as a copy of a complaint, file-stamped by the clerk of the court) that you have commenced a lawsuit against the complainant in a jurisdiction to which the complainant has submitted under Paragraph 3(b)(xiii) of the Rules of Procedure. (In general, that jurisdiction is either the location of our principal office or of your address as shown in our Whois database. See Paragraphs 1 and 3(b)(xiii) of the Rules of Procedure for details.) If we receive such documentation within the ten (10) business day period, we will not implement the Administrative Panel's decision, and we will take no further action, until we receive (i) evidence satisfactory to us of a resolution between the parties; (ii) evidence satisfactory to us that your lawsuit has been dismissed or withdrawn; or (iii) a copy of an order from such court dismissing your lawsuit or ordering that you do not have the right to continue to use your domain name.
    A sale is a mutual agreement between 2 or more parties.. therefore a UDRP can never be classed as a sale
    I disagree that its as clear cut on the basis as presented.

    I believe it can be argued, certainly in regard to the sedo contract as presented, that the buyer agrees to buy the domain at zero cost, the seller agrees to "sell" the domain at zero cost in light of the udrp finding and in preference to them using the legal channels that the udrp does not override.

    There is a choice being made to transfer the domain for a zero sum, and its not on the basis of any court ruling.

    Think of it like this, if they lose the udrp, go to court (thus rendering the udrp decision moot) and during that process agree to sell the domain for, say, $10k to settle - at what point did something change?
    When using google for counts - use double quotes for usage counts for multiword terms and set "match type" to "exact" for all search volume lookups. Click here for more info

  7. #52
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    Apr 2005
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    I agree it of course can be argued.. most things have an argument.. otherwise what we do with the lawyers? and perhaps most domainers have the money to fight the likes of SEDO on such an argument..

    The fact of the matter is that it is ommited from the contract and it would be better if that was included in the agreement.. there are of course bigger issues at stake here. And I am happy that you focused on this one..

    By Exposing issues the aim is to highlite in order to protect the members of this board and of course other domainers.. Sedo are unlikely to force the contract in its literal terms as this would destroy them from a PR point of view..

    However its better to act in confidence than wallow in ignorance.. your members are now fore-warned whereas before they would look at the contract and see how much more they were going to earn..

    The moral is Read and Understand what you are signing...

    You are commiting yourself for the period of the contract.. SEDO could get dumped by its advertising provider and what happens if it changes to a lesser partner? you are still contracted to the term of the contract and you can not MOVE your domains to another Program..

    Also consider that recently DomainSponsor just dropped its PPC in favour of Pay Per Performance.. did anyone see that coming?

    This is still the .COM era.. what happens if SEDO was to be bought out tomorrow? That contract would still be enforceable..

    Think..
    Last edited by namestrands; 10-16-2005 at 10:13 AM.
    do you tango? or do you dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?

  8. #53
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    Sep 2002
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    Wales (UK)
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    If you enter into an exclusive contract, you enter into an exclusive contract - so surely it should be a moot point what the penalties for breaking that contract are?

    Given that they allow you to sell or develop the domain, the only problem area is the udrp and whilst it'd be better for them to include that explicitly you agree there is at least an argument for that. I'd say the odds of sedo shooting themselves in the head with the pr gun by taking someone who loses a udrp to court for 100k over breach of contract are a bit on the slim side.

    What are the bigger issues?
    When using google for counts - use double quotes for usage counts for multiword terms and set "match type" to "exact" for all search volume lookups. Click here for more info

  9. #54
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    Apr 2005
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    UK (Bristol)
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    I agree that there is a defence for just about anything.. I also concede that SEDO would be MAD to pursue but the fact remains they can. Being ForeWarned is being ForeArmed..

    The contracts are not to Benefit the Domainers, only to stop them from moving elsewhere. If there is no issue then why require a contract? if SEDO is the best then that should speak for itself.

    I for one support my fellow domainers on this issue and not the Programs
    do you tango? or do you dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    .com.au
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    11,053
    Originally posted by namestrands
    I agree that there is a defence for just about anything.. I also concede that SEDO would be MAD to pursue but the fact remains they can. Being ForeWarned is being ForeArmed..

    Agree that the clause sounds crazy- though if it is there I'd assume they will be trying to enforce it. I wonder what country the contract is said to apply to as I doubt it would be considered valid in many courts, since the amount is so unreasonable.

    "As a general rule, the court will not enforce penalty clauses but it will enforce articles which "pre-determine damages". The most important factor in determining whether a clause is a penalty clause or a pre-determination of damages is the reasonableness of the amount."

    http://www.duhaime.org/contract/ca-con7.aspx
    GamesRoom.com, Possum.com, Arithmetic.com on greatdomains auction, low reserves, priced to sell!

  11. #56
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    Apr 2005
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    UK (Bristol)
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    It states that enforcement of the contract will be via arbitration in London England..

    And therefore SEDO will only have to prove as with UDRP that the terms were Broken.

    I submitted to SEDO and they agreed that it was unreal.. I however did suggest that it would be better if the users was to forfeit all revenue earned.. That would be more acceptable in as far as contractual penalties go.
    Last edited by namestrands; 10-16-2005 at 10:02 AM.
    do you tango? or do you dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Athens, Greece
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    1,938
    What happens if you want to just stop using the domain and either have no nameservers or drop it?
    Online Domain - OnlineDomain.com Domain Name News and Legal Review

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    UK (Bristol)
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    106
    Contract States you Must participate in the program. Of course if you do not renew the domain and let it drop then its unlikely they can do anything as you forfeit the rights to the domain, However there is no clause that addresses this..

    The contract is OneSided
    do you tango? or do you dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?

  14. #59
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    38
    Namestrands,

    I can't find the fines or anything you're talking about in Sedo's TOS:

    http://www.sedo.com/about/policy.php...d=&language=us

    Where are these clauses you're talking about?

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    UK (Bristol)
    Posts
    106
    We are talking about the New Sedo Contracts and the SEDOPro Program. The program is invite only..
    do you tango? or do you dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?

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