Originally posted by DNBlogger
Why not?

Making it affordable for one entity (other than the registry) to control hundreds of thousands or millions of domains makes it too easy for domain monopolies to propogate and provide little more than weak content for each domain. That's not good for the long-term, IMHO.

Members here and at other domain forums aren't all equal, despite what those who stand most to gain from registry price reductions of a few shekels per domain would have us believe.

Originally posted by handsanitizer
That can't be good for the long term viability of the Internet.

Verisign's monopolistic ways (with ICANN's blessing) are out of control and repulsive.

As for ICANN itself, it's proficientcy thus far has been in dissapointing and/or annoying registrants....and championing the interests of registries rather than domain registrants and owners.

Originally posted by DomainStar
Verisign's monopolistic ways (with ICANN's blessing) are out of control and repulsive.

As for ICANN itself, it's proficientcy thus far has been in dissapointing and/or annoying registrants....and championing the interests of registries rather than domain registrants and owners.

All true.

Originally posted by handsanitizer
Making it affordable for one entity (other than the registry) to control hundreds of thousands or millions of domains makes it too easy for domain monopolies to propogate and provide little more than weak content for each domain. That's not good for the long-term, IMHO.

Members here and at other domain forums aren't all equal, despite what those who stand most to gain from registry price reductions of a few shekels per domain would have us believe.

Notice the first sentence "other than the registry." Are you working for VeriSign? Higher prices only benefit them, and no one else. Consumers benefit when prices go down, basic economics.

1-800 numbers cost about 13 cents/month, wholesale. See page 60 of the "Tariff" document at:

www.sms800.com

Why should domain names be more costly than those? They have similar scale (i.e. around 10 million), and their technological costs (routing phone numbers) might be even more costly than DNS costs.

The difference? Competition for management of the telephone database, unlike domains where registries have a monopoly and presumptive renewal.

How else should prices for costs be set, other than competitive tender? Magically picking $6/yr + 7% annual price increases out of thin air, with no reference to actual costs or determined through competitive bidding is ridiculous.

By your logic, people only benefit a "little bit" if the price of gas goes up by 2 cents/gallon. So, let the gas companies collude a bit. No one will care, because people will only save a few "shekels" per year if the DOJ cracks down on them.

Originally posted by GeorgeK
Notice the first sentence "other than the registry." Are you working for VeriSign? Higher prices only benefit them, and no one else. Consumers benefit when prices go down, basic economics.

1-800 numbers cost about 13 cents/month, wholesale. See page 60 of the "Tariff" document at:

www.sms800.com

Why should domain names be more costly than those? They have similar scale (i.e. around 10 million), and their technological costs (routing phone numbers) might be even more costly than DNS costs.

The difference? Competition for management of the telephone database, unlike domains where registries have a monopoly and presumptive renewal.

How else should prices for costs be set, other than competitive tender? Magically picking $6/yr + 7% annual price increases out of thin air, with no reference to actual costs or determined through competitive bidding is ridiculous.

By your logic, people only benefit a "little bit" if the price of gas goes up by 2 cents/gallon. So, let the gas companies collude a bit. No one will care, because people will only save a few "shekels" per year if the DOJ cracks down on them.

No, I don't work for Verisign. The fact that you would float that balloon after I merely suggest that $7/domain at the registry level is reasonable for most internet users is troubling. You do like to tout yourself as a reasonable individual.

If Verisign's "higher prices" of $7 per domain help free up more decent domains for end users, then it's really not such a bad thing. I don't own thousands of domains, merely just over one hundred, so $7/domain at the registry level is affordable for me. If I owned hundreds or thousands, perhaps like you, I'd be concerned. If you own hundreds or thousands of domains, you're in the minority, and therefore what's best for you isn't really best for me.

You're right when you say registries have a monopoly. The fact is, so do you. Do you sell your domains for $2 each when you know you can get more for them? No, you don't. I know, you drop plenty or sell them for reg fee, but only those that don't make you any money, right?

I don't understand your analagies to gasoline and 800 numbers. I don't see qualities of sameness there. Gasoline price increases affect me and most commuters bigtime. Most domain name owners are mimimally affected by domain name prices. Otherwise, Network Solutions would have gone belly-up ions ago.

When you suggest that "$7/domain at the registry level is reasonable for most internet users", how do you know this? Did you contact all 177 million of them? You sound like a central planner that "knows better" than everyone else. Get over yourself.

I can tell you that if you offer lower prices to all consumers, they'll definitely pick that over higher prices. I don't even need to ask, it's so obvious. If you prefer to pay an extra $500/yr ($5/yr overpayment x 100 domains) to VeriSign, you can still do that if prices are $2/yr. I'm sure everyone else will pick their own charities, or, heaven forbid, spend the money on themselves.

You "don't understand" a lot of things, not just gasoline or 800 number analogies. The VeriSign "tax" is on the order of $400 million/yr. That's a lot of dough.

Most folks are "minimally affected" by lots of price fixing and other anti-competitive practices individually, but that on aggregate are worth far less than $400 million/yr, and the government has gone after them. This should be no different.

Originally posted by GeorgeK
Notice the first sentence "other than the registry." Are you working for VeriSign? Higher prices only benefit them, and no one else. Consumers benefit when prices go down, basic economics.

1-800 numbers cost about 13 cents/month, wholesale. See page 60 of the "Tariff" document at:

www.sms800.com

Why should domain names be more costly than those? They have similar scale (i.e. around 10 million), and their technological costs (routing phone numbers) might be even more costly than DNS costs.

The difference? Competition for management of the telephone database, unlike domains where registries have a monopoly and presumptive renewal.

How else should prices for costs be set, other than competitive tender? Magically picking $6/yr + 7% annual price increases out of thin air, with no reference to actual costs or determined through competitive bidding is ridiculous.

By your logic, people only benefit a "little bit" if the price of gas goes up by 2 cents/gallon. So, let the gas companies collude a bit. No one will care, because people will only save a few "shekels" per year if the DOJ cracks down on them.

No, I don't work for Verisign. The fact that you would float that balloon says something about you.

If gasoline prices increase a couple of cents, it affects me (I drive alot). If Verisign charges $7/domain, it makes little difference to me. I don't own that many domains. If I owned hundreds or thousands, perhaps as you do, then I'd be concerned. Most domainers (and certainly end-users) don't own hundreds or thousands, so it's not as important to us as it is to you.

To state something to the effect of "... we should all be concerned and band together to fight the big bad evil Verisign because we're all in the same boat" is disingenuous.

Originally posted by handsanitizer
To state something to the effect of "... we should all be concerned and band together to fight the big bad evil Verisign because we're all in the same boat" is disingenuous.

It's as "disingenuous" as folks who argue for lower personal tax rates, which benefit all.

Of course millionaires will benefit more on an absolute dollar amount than a school teacher or a nurse. But, everyone does benefit.

You're more concerned about the distribution of "wealth" and think higher "taxes" somehow helps people, because "the rich get taxed more." Higher taxes destroy wealth, even for the little guy.

In this case, the "higher taxes" aren't going to some beneficial purpose or noble cause. They're going to VeriSign shareholders, and no one else. Indeed, if prices were lower, MORE domains in aggregate would be registered, and that's beneficial to that marginal poor person who can't afford the $7/yr today (maybe they're in Africa or some other poor area of the world). Maybe that person builds the next Google because they get onto the internet with a $2/yr domain name. But, they're shut out of the market because of the high VeriSign tax.

Originally posted by handsanitizer

You're right when you say registries have a monopoly. The fact is, so do you.

How you can make this comparison without a giant smirk on your face is beyond me.

Bottom line: Domain registration/renewal prices MUST NOT BE more than $2/domain or it is a rip-off of the consumer imo.

There are many established entities that are capable and willing to run the .com registry at ~ $2/domain cost.

Why does the consumer need Verisign/ICANN't?

Originally posted by DNBlogger
Bottom line: Domain registration/renewal prices MUST NOT BE more than $2/domain or it is a rip-off of the consumer imo.

There are many established entities that are capable and willing to run the .com registry at ~ $2/domain cost.

Why does the consumer need Verisign/ICANN't?

You really "get it" !!!

Very logically and susinctly affirmed.

Cheers !

Originally posted by InnovationHQ
How you can make this comparison without a giant smirk on your face is beyond me.

Yes, it is beyond you. Yes, there is a smirk here.

It's a smaller scale, but it's still a monopoly.

Originally posted by DNBlogger
Why does the consumer need Verisign/There are many established entities that are capable and willing to run the .com registry at ~ $2/domain cost.ICANN't?

Which entity would you like to see running the .com registry?

Originally posted by handsanitizer
It's a smaller scale, but it's still a monopoly.

Do you even know the definition of monopoly?

Originally posted by Ghuzz
Do you even know the definition of monopoly?

Yes, I do: "exclusive ownership through legal priviledge."