DNJ's latest newsletter confirms it:

http://www.dnjournal.com/newsletters/2010/january.htm

Total Reported Domain Sales Dropped 12.5% in 2009 But ccTLD Sales Soared 28% Over the Previous Year

My figures are a little harsher on com values but I am a ccTLD bull so not surprising I guess

Median of the top 100 reported sales to DNJ.

Year.......Com Sales .... ccTLD Sales

2006.......$125K........ $13K
2007.......$200K ....... $21K
2008.......$188K ....... $26K
2009.......$141K ....... $37K

-If you look through the actual data of the Top 100 sales 40% of the sales are .de and as far as .com.au and many other cc tlds goes there is not one single sale.

-I don't think it says much about values either. Of those country codes how many actually have a liquid market that people can trade into? As opposed to sales being made up of occasional enduser sales? Like the twice yearly .at sale and the occasional .it in the top charts?

-Thirdly in the cc tld market in total, sales from hundreds of different extensions added together makes up around one quarter of the sales volume in .com, what does that say for those cctlds generally?

Lastly that is not to say .com values haven't fallen, they clearly have, 50%+, but I do not think any of the cc tlds beyond the most popular (.de and co.uk) have a genuine liquid market of any substance.

Still in denial hey snoopy?

Replying to your points in order:

1) There are 16 different ccTLD's represented which is pretty broad IMO (naturally no top 100 list will ever cover all ccTLDs)
2) It says everything about values (growth thereof). Liquidity has nothing to do with value - it is a completely seperate measure (I admit important measure)
3) It says com's are generally worth a hell of a lot more than ccTLDs. Duh. I think we aall know that. This analysis (by the authority in domain sales) is about growth.
4) Read point 2. This is not about liquidity.

Thanks for the response.

Originally posted by netfleet

1) There are 16 different ccTLD's represented which is pretty broad IMO (naturally no top 100 list will ever cover all ccTLDs)

The point is the vast majority of cc tlds have no substantial sales reported at all. Perhaps you analsys should be about .de, .co.uk and the few other domainant cctlds that the data mainly represents.

Originally posted by netfleet
2) It says everything about values (growth thereof). Liquidity has nothing to do with value - it is a completely seperate measure (I admit important measure)

Liquidity has everything to do with value. There is no point in valuing something if there is no actual market that people can buy in and out of.

A market consisting mainly of enduser sales means a market without liquidity. When you decide it is time to sell you can't sell at anywhere near "reported" sales levels. In the .com arena half the higher sales are domainers trading, that makes for a liquid market.

Originally posted by netfleet
3) It says com's are generally worth a hell of a lot more than ccTLDs. Duh. I think we aall know that. This analysis (by the authority in domain sales) is about growth.

Growth doesn't mean people are making much money. Most of the cc tlds (outside the big European ones) are like comparing the economies of 3rd world countries to the US, they might be growing fast but it is from a very low base.

Originally posted by snoopy
Perhaps you analsys should be about .de, .co.uk and the few other domainant cctlds that the data mainly represents.

Yes fair call.

Originally posted by snoopy

Liquidity has everything to do with value.

Absolute nonesense. LLLL.com market is probably the most liquid market in domains. However it doesn't mean that it's a valuable market or is growing.

Originally posted by snoopy

There is no point in valuing something if there is no actual market that people can buy in and out of.

A market consisting mainly of enduser sales means a market without liquidity. When you decide it is time to sell you can't sell at anywhere near "reported" sales levels. In the .com arena half the higher sales are domainers trading, that makes for a liquid market.

I agree, com market is much more liquid & easier to trade. I'm not arguing that. This thread is about values & growth, not liquidity - please try to stay on topic.

Originally posted by snoopy

Growth doesn't mean people are making much money. Most of the cc tlds (outside the big European ones) are like comparing the economies of 3rd world countries to the US, they might be growing fast but it is from a very low base. [/B]

That's all true. Starting from a low base is good though - easier entry level. And it's the rate of change that's inportant.

Originally posted by netfleet

Absolute nonesense. LLLL.com market is probably the most liquid market in domains. However it doesn't mean that it's a valuable market or is growing.

It means values are certain, the sales being reported actually do reflect what you can get for your own names. Liquidity = Certain value. That is different to a market with only occasional sales where the buyers are mainly endusers.

Originally posted by netfleet
I agree, com market is much more liquid & easier to trade. I'm not arguing that. This thread is about values & growth, not liquidity - please try to stay on topic.

What something "is worth" is what is can be sold for in a short time frame. "Liquid value", not "if you get lucky and the perfect buyer comes along value" Your growth figures don't really say much about actual values because the dataset is largely enduser sales for the cc tlds and probably 50% enduser sales for the .com's.

In the case of .com for example according to your figures the "median sale" has gone from 200k to 141k in 2 years, in reality market values are down far more than that figure would suggest. The 200k name of a couple of years ago is now a sub 100k name.

I think it is all do with the enduser market holding up better than the domainer market, the end result being that those median figures don't really say much about how actual values have changed.

Originally posted by netfleet
That's all true. Starting from a low base is good though - easier entry level. And it's the rate of change that's inportant.

The problem is it is very difficult to invest if there isn't liquidity. Take .com.au for example, if someone wants to invest 100k there is probably no way if doing that in a short time frame, there is likely no way of taking out 100k in short timeframe either. You'll probably have to buy hundreds of 3 figure names over a period of months. It is a tiny market.

DNJ is very much an American publication and many ccTLD sales would be end user sales. It is unlikely that they would be reported to DNJ either. The reason for this varies - sometimes it is due to no strong aftermarket in a particular ccTLD. In other cases, it may be a buy to develop purchase rather than the previously buy to park purchase style of the last few years. The individual ccTLD markets are also smaller than that of .com (which is essentially a global TLD) and this is reflected in the sales prices. The .de ccTLD is a super ccTLD and is one of the largest ccTLDs, ditto the .uk ccTLD. Both of these have recognised aftermarkets. Some ccTLDs, such as .ie (Ireland) have no aftermarket and have quite restrictive resale terms. One possible indicator of the value of a particular ccTLD in its country level market is the popularity of the ccTLD with respect to .com TLD registration volume in that market. The other factor (one that's a lot harder to work out without a decent list of the ccTLD domains) is the Uniqueness of the ccTLD (the number of domains in that ccTLD that only exist in that ccTLD and not in com/net/org/biz/info/mobi etc.). The more traded a ccTLD is, the lower this percentage will be. The Uniqueness figures for 01/January/2010 over com/net/org/biz/info/mobi/asia were 83% for .com, 11.03% for .net, 19.86% for .org, 5.88% for .biz, 24.83% for .info, 10.16% for .mobi, and
4.24% for .asia. After the Unique domains, the most common pairing for ccTLDs would be the number of domains registered in a ccTLD that are also in .com TLD.

Regards...jmcc

Originally posted by jmcc
DNJ is very much an American publication and many ccTLD sales would be end user sales. It is unlikely that they would be reported to DNJ either.

If you look at where dnjournal data is coming from I think there is no American reporting bias, for example 63% of the sales in the Top 100 chart for last year were from Sedo,

http://dnjournal.com/archive/domains...harts-2009.htm

Originally posted by jmcc
The .de ccTLD is a super ccTLD and is one of the largest ccTLDs, ditto the .uk ccTLD. Both of these have recognised aftermarkets. Some ccTLDs, such as .ie (Ireland) have no aftermarket and have quite restrictive resale terms. One possible indicator of the value of a particular ccTLD in its country level market is the popularity of the ccTLD with respect to .com TLD registration volume in that market.

I think that is it, the strength of different cc tlds varies enormously.

New Weekly Domain Sales Report at DNJournal.com

1. Boating.com $250,000 AfternicDLS
2. Website.de €101,150 = $141,610 Sedo
3. Designer.co.uk £76,300 = $122,080 Sedo
4. Macaroni.com $74,607 NameJet
5. Lundi.fr €50,000 = $70,000 Sedo

I know it's only one fortnight of sales but 3 of the 5 top sales ccTLDs???

You would never have seen that 2 years ago

I tell ya, ccTLDs is where it's at. Dump those com's boys (luckily it's a liquid market!) & jump on the bandwagon. Plenty of steam left in this market

Originally posted by netfleet
New Weekly Domain Sales Report at DNJournal.com

1. Boating.com $250,000 AfternicDLS
2. Website.de €101,150 = $141,610 Sedo
3. Designer.co.uk £76,300 = $122,080 Sedo
4. Macaroni.com $74,607 NameJet
5. Lundi.fr €50,000 = $70,000 Sedo

I know it's only one fortnight of sales but 3 of the 5 top sales ccTLDs???

I particulary like the way you've cut off the chart right where the cc sales start to peter out at no.5

http://dnjournal.com/domainsales.htm

Sorry - I think Ron's lead in prompted me to do so:

Ron Jackson:

A pair of 6-figure ccTLD sales also made big waves and helped the country codes take 3 of the top 5 spots on our new all extension leader board

Another day, another piece of evidence of the struggling .com and rising ccTLDs

http://www.dnjournal.com/archive/low...s/20100205.htm

Glad to hear about the cctld sales. It's not a .com only world, so recognizing shifts in the larger tld market is a welcome report. Certainly interesting news for investors with diverse portfolios.

Originally posted by netfleet
Another day, another piece of evidence of the struggling .com and rising ccTLDs

http://www.dnjournal.com/archive/low...s/20100205.htm

From what I know of it .se has always been the dominant extension in Sweden, as is the case in alot of countries with a very strong country codes. For those buying .com's I would say it is only as an extra or those who are operating internationally.

.SE definitely dominates sweden with .nu and .com in second I would guess.

As far as this ccTLDs taking over the world...

what a bunch of garbage, liquidity isn't relevant. I value all my .coms at infinity dollars then, and .com is permanently #1. there, settled.