Originally posted by generic
at the very root, if you dont know about something you can't use it

Exactly!

So giving .INFO away free to individuals is a great way to get .INFO into peoples minds as they also tell others their web site address is a .INFO!

And giving these domains away does not harm the commercial domains as personal names have no real commercial value, thus domainers do not grab them and try to promote this .INFO use.

oh damn, not another .info thread .

Well, I'll just concede you guys have great points and maybe ya'll are right.

I do hope that they come up with better promotions than just giving names away, however, I don't think this promotion is fatal.

Originally posted by ILikeInfo
Exactly!

So giving .INFO away free to individuals is a great way to get .INFO into peoples minds as they also tell others their web site address is a .INFO!

Yeah, but they could have done better imo.

By actually encouraging people to actually make the sites would be best.

Instead of just encouraging name hoarding by people who probably wont develop them and also cheapening the image.

But life goes on.

Originally posted by generic
I don't think this promotion is fatal.

I don't think anybody has said it's fatal, just a step in the wrong direction and even possibly a step backwards.

I'm really not sure that exposing the tld to the corporates by way of lots of hobby sites or developer contests is the way to make them want to be a part of it.

me neither - but doing nothing may be less encouraging as they never will even know!

and it will certainly raise awareness amoung people who actually use websites - and thats a real fine place to start methinks.

Originally posted by generic
Yeah, but they could have done better imo.

By actually encouraging people to actually make the sites would best.

Instead of just name hoarding by people who probably wont develop them and also cheapening the image.

But life goes on.

There is now value in hording personal names and there is no reason to reg them without intending to put up a site.

Al the incentives line up WIN-WIN on personal usage.

Originally posted by safesys
I'm really not sure that exposing the tld to the corporates by way of lots of hobby sites or developer contests is the way to make them want to be a part of it.

And if the TLD has the highest percentage of personal sites of any TLD then it's very hard to dismiss .INFO as having no recognition.

Got back from dinner and wine, only to find a RIOT of over 60 posts in a thread I started hours earlier!

So many good responses, ideas, and thoughts – impossible to properly respond to all. I will try in groups of 10.

1Safe indicated:

"...is only likely to affect low tier term reseller to reseller
sales, end user decision makers are unlikely to even know of the
promotion..."

I hope Safe is correct. If its successful, a store clerk you don't know will ask you "did you get your free domains, I just heard about about the .INFOs last night on the nightly news." Nightmare, .INFO will be known as the free domain.


2ILikeInfo indicated:

"...to hide the massive drops... ...perceived as a failure of .INFO."

"Snoopy pointed out to me... ...when .INFO has record devistation when it becomes the first TLD in history to lose 50% of it's registrations in less than a 6 month period? It's nuts..."

Five years ago it would blow your mind, register more to hide less registrations? Now, it will just be accepted as another type of .com bubble.

...As I've been saying forever, IMHO, Afilias should have focused...

I agree 100%. Maybe that should be characterized as a failure of management to identify issues and take action.


3Speculator indicated:

My impressions and opinion... ...as follows:

1. ...end-user usage and prices have nothing much to do with what we all live with day and night...

2. ...value... not going to be affected much. ...only potential dilution comes from more tlds...'


4Safe countered speculator by indicating:

"The tld plays as important a part in the value ... ...gtld's are not neutral and can't simply be ignored...

...the noncom tld *is* an appendage .......fall into the "settling for second best" category. prices reflect that."


5generic indicated:

"...will be decided by developers of all sorts... "

That is an excellent point generic. Key will be wheter the public sees For Sale signs or info on .INFOs.


6Robert indicated:

"It seems that reseller sales (sales among domaiers) might have cooled a bit and therefore prices deflated..."

I agree. I have another 25 names I need your appraisals of Robert, but I am waiting to the appraisals of the first 12 batches of 25 come in. Boy, I never thought it would be so easy, just register junk. info.

"...if somebody outside the domain market has/had his sights on of them (premium or not ) I doubt this "free info " scheme will influence it's decision...'

I hope you are correct that every buyer is a deep pocketed end-user on a mission. But frequently they are a mixture, lots of bucks but not stupid, want it bad but still looking at alternate pricing.



7ILikeInfo indicated:

"...this promotion is in fact the advertising you are suggesting... That is registrars are giving .INFO top face time on their sites and Afilias has minimal out of pocket expenses for this advertising."

I disagree as I never saw desperation characterized as misguided advertising before.


8safesys indicated

"...only really affects the value of domains in the same value park as what can still be registered..."

Safe is again 100% logically correct. However, value frequently does not come from logical thinking.


9generic indicated:

"Afilias was supposed to advertise..."

An advertising budget IS in the Afilias TLD application to ICANN, which they appear to be violating.


10ILikeInfo indicated:

'...untapped possibilities for .INFO, such as personal sites...'

I am not sure if I want to use the winning model of .NAME. There may be possibilities better than free or .Name.

11safesys indicated:

"It'd be wasted dollars if they tried to promote it on that basis imo."

I agree.


12generic indicated

"But even better - make a site contest - encourage development, not registrations."

I think Afilias should hire generic for their brain storming.

13ILikeInfo indicated:

...""It's just a domain so lets differentiate based on price for 4 months" [sic]...""

ILikeInfo's [sic] is be right-on. It differenciates alright, like old fish distingues itself from cavier.


14generic indicated:

"...They should promote its strength...."

I think that generic is batting 100.


15safesys

"Personally, I'd think promoting it as a compliment domain would be better logic than trying to pretend it competes head on when its clear to the potential buyer that it doesn't."

Whenever you can Safe, could you post an example of a compliment domain? Thank you.

16generic indicated:

"...US ads don't even mention .com... ...the message is register a . us domain, americas extension..."

A good observation, except, .US is not generally characterized as tremendously successful.

17ILikeInfo indicated:

"...if I want to check out the new family photos of a friend that returned from vacation which makes more sense:
JaneDoe.NAME or
JaneDoe.INFO

And which would you post your resume on, etc?"

18RobertF indicated:

"give yearly award$ to fully developed info sites in different categories"

I don't know RobertF, it hasn't worked before.

19generic indicated:

"... defining info as a personal use extension is absurdly limiting ..."

Good point.


19safesys indicated:

"...the problem with site contests is that they are pretty much of no interest to the corporates with decent budgets - its more the realm of the hobby/smallscale developers."


I agree Safe, that is exactly why it won't work.


20generic indicated:

"...exactly, definitely better than giving away names imo..."

21safesys indicated:

"...smacking your head with a cricket bat for 10 minutes is better than giving away registrations imo."

ANOTHER GREAT SAFE STATEMENT INVOLVING SMACKING A BODY PART.


22ILikeInfo indicated:

"Not possible as so many domains are not owned by those desiring to develope. That said, I do agree with your suggestion in the context that DomeBase and StocDoctor have presented it."

I never thought of it, but you are correct on another reason why those promotions fail.

"Take the remaining bad sunrise registrations and award them to those with the best development proposals and only issue them once the site is done and take them away if there is any attempt to sell them or the site changes in a substantial way."

That probably won't happen. Afilias does not want to take any action not in the contract (rules) at the time the domain was purchased as they are afraid of being sued.


23generic indicated:

"...at least its still advertisement for .info in the form of sites that can be found in the search engines or in marketing material -
its an example of fully realized product, its a better direction imo than just giving away names."

I agree that it is a better direction, but as ILikeInfo points out, it is not going to work.

24RobertF indicated:

"...but it might motivate the corporate web designer... ...An award is like a notch on your gun..."

But it could take years before that award becomes generally recognized.


25generic indicated:

"...would depend on if the cricket bat were made of steel, wood or rubber I suppose..."

I disagee, it doesn't mater what the cricket bat is made out of, free domains are worst.


26safesys indicated:

"...perhaps afilias could think about taking the top tier names and making them open directories that they operate and promote so multiple entities get utility and it gives afilas something to promote and act as a showcase for the tld."

Safe's idea is better than that cricket bat idea.


27RobertF indicated:

"...Do you guys realize the size of the info "pending delete' lists a year from now....?"

The issue willb be are we better off if only say 3% of the 2 million free domains don't drop?? Regardless, if there is a bubble (ie. registration drops to 500,000), they will BLAME it on the free domains and not their poor management!

28ILikeInfo indicated:

"...Fact is they do allready own top their names right now and are doing nothing with them. See email.info, phone.info, and *MANY* others ...."

I don't take that personal. I am just developing s l o w ly

29ILikeInfo indicated:

"...Where did I ever say or suggest that Afilias define .INFO as a personal TLD?"

The .NAME issue starts to be hit with a cricket bat.


30generic indicated:

"...I think that's too much manipulation[SAFE's IDEA]. They should drop all the names tomorrow, let anybody grab em, and let the selling and developing begin already. Bang"

If you still mean the locked landrush domains, Afilias is afraid of a law suit. If you mean every domain, doesn't an initial landrush auction at the registry level let domains go to those who are in the best position to develop them, the highest bidder??

31generic indicated:

"have focused on something that targets an ideal niche for their TLD and could help move .INFO recognition forward"


32safesys indicated:

"...my point, that more than one entity would be able to use them if they were used as an open directory."

I am too much a dummy to understand what SAFE means. Can anyone post a link?


33ILikeInfo indicated:

"...like saying why does .INFO even exist when we have .COM?"

But if the .name idea failed once, why try again?


34generic indicated:

"...you want to bring info recognition forward in the context of how another extension is being defined - a very narrow definition a personal use tld"


35generic indicated

"...would be better served showing it as the extension of general information on the internet or something similarly inclusive."


36generic indicated:

...I'm done. I think I'm very clear about what I'm proposing, why I'm proposing it, and what the benefits would be.

Ok, no more about .NAME.


37safesys indicated:

"but where do you start to tackle a goal (showing it as the extension of general information) as big as that?"

Safe wants details!


38generic indicated:

"...they[Afilias] could be doing a little more than they are and I find it frustrating sometimes."

I think 1,460,257 other .INFOers are even more than frustrated!


39generic indicated:

"Baby steps?[where to start] ...


40safesys indicated:

"Like promoting them for personal names?"

Darn, not that .NAME again.

41generic indicated:
Not when you have a .name extension its being done already get your .name have you heard? I dont see how .info offers any great association with this use anyhow

42ILikeInfo indicated:

quote: they could be doing a little more

"...Making .INFO free just does none of this. It does nothing to promote .INFO or it's benefits in a way that will take root and grow..."


43safesys indicated:
"...a .info for personal information, like a resume/blog etc at least makes some kind of sense."

YES! YES! YES! A free .INFO for your blog and resume.

44ILikeInfo indicated:

I know your ID here at DS, why the hell would I think of your site as "generic.NAME", again, I know your name and I'm not looking to know your name. It's a TLD that points to itself.

However I might want to find out more about you and "Generic.INFO" might be a great place to start. Or if I want to purchase somthing from you erhaps "Generic.COM" is where I start.

Either the TLD means something or it does not. If .NAME means something then my brain is wired wrong cause my brain says .NAME just makes no sense ..... I know your name allready .....


45generic indicated:

"Maybe your right ILI and safe. ...So, why not advertise it as .info - where the internet goes for information - or something like that


OK. But don't you need some information there?


46ILikeInfo indicated:

"... Neustar can survive even if it's TLD's lose money."

I guess that is why Microsoft should run all of them.


47generic indicated:

"Wasn't there suppose to be a million (or some amount) dollar adv campaign done?"

Yea it in the application budget but they didn't do it. But also, the registration levels projected did not happen.


48safesysindiated:

quote: why not advertise it as .info - where the internet goes for information

".info needs a unique selling point..."

What unique selling point?

49generic indicated:

"Well, anyway, imo, they should encourage development, which would create a direction of free advertisment for them."


50generic indicated:

"...that's the mantra, advertise it, build recognition but, better than that, encourage development"


Encourage 1,000,000 registrants with spam?

51safesys indicated:

quote: ...they should encourage development, which would create a direction of free advertisment for them.

"...sounds easy, but domain speculators likely aren't the most motivated or able to do that - and the giveaway is removing any remaining usable namespace at a huge rate into those very hands.
how do you get the *right kind of people* to use the tld and promote it? thats the sixty four thousand dollar question."

YES YES


52generic indicated:

"...how do you get anybody to do anything? The $64,000 answer

cold cash

incentives"

Maybe, please draw your check to Afilias.


53safesys indicated:

"but the "right kind of people" have plenty of the former and aren't easily swayed by the latter."


54generic indicated:

"corps are not going to join some contest..."


55ILikeInfo indicated:

"Partial list of their holdings:
about.info, address,info,..."


The above is AFILIAS's hold for the uninformed.


56safesys indicated:

quote: the corps if they ever come will probably be last
-----------------------------------------------------------------

"which is the problem - as they were what moved .com first, before the speculators came in en masse."


57generic indicated:

"totally agree..."

58ILikeInfo indicated:

quote: if you dont know about something you can't use it
--------------------------------------------------------

"Exactly! So giving .INFO away free to individuals is a great way to get .INFO into peoples minds as they also tell others their web site address is a .INFO! And giving these domains away does not harm the commercial domains as personal names have no real commercial value, thus domainers do not grab them and try to promote this .INFO use."

That is one positive.

59generic indicated:

"oh damn, not another .info thread . Well, I'll just concede you guys have great points and maybe ya'll are right..."


I 100% agree.

60generic indicated:

"...encouraging people to actually make the sites would be best. Instead of just encouraging name hoarding."

Yea again.

61ILikeInfo indicated:

"I don't think anybody has said it's fatal, just a step in the wrong direction and even possibly a step backwards."

That remains to be seen and the issue of the post. Is it a step back, forward, or to the side?

62safesys indicated:

"I'm really not sure that exposing the tld to the corporates by way of lots of hobby sites or developer contests is the way to make them want to be a part of it."

63generic

"me neither..."

64ILikeInfo

"There is now value in hording personal names and there is no reason to reg them without intending to put up a site...."

65ILikeInfo

"And if the TLD has the highest percentage of personal sites of any TLD then it's very hard to dismiss .INFO as having no recognition."

I hope you are correct, but, it still has not been proven.

Man... William!

I thought I was a compulsive documentator and categorizer, but you have zoomed past me in this regard! LOL Well... no doubt comes in handy in your profession. My only regret is that I do not live close enough for you to do my taxes!