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  1. #1
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    Overture Search Tool & .net

    I noticed that .net is very weak for certain overture searches compared to .com and .org. Examples ...

    Cleveland (no ext) - 40,286
    Cleveland.com - 30,653
    Cleveland.net - 0
    Cleveland.org - 120

    Miami (no ext) - 129,006
    Miami.com - 4360
    Miami.net - 0
    Miami.org - 49

    California (no ext) - 735,743
    California.com - 4013
    California.net - 0
    California.org - 518

    Any idea why .net would lag .org? Kind of interesting too that 'Cleveland.com' would be greater than 'California.com' given the difference in their relative populations. The non-extension versions reflect what one would expect.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Couple of points:

    One, the OVT count (with extension) that you are seeing with Cleveland.com is not typical and (just like LasVegas.com) probably a result of heavy marketing; see for example:

    Atlanta.com 2459
    Chicago.com 4812
    Dallas.com 1797
    Seattle.com 1113
    NewOrleans.com 4960
    NewYork.com 4396
    Phoenix.com 4106

    London.com 999
    Paris.com 1966
    Tokyo.com 466

    Secondly, as I noted before quite some while ago, significant natural type-ins only exist for .com, and even that (unless there's marketing like that for LasVegas.com) is a small portion of the total traffic to the site, as indicated by the ratio of OVT numbers with and without extension. And, this is the reason, I don't believe in "bleed" being a deterrant to developing decent names in new tlds.
    Last edited by Speculator; 12-27-2004 at 01:29 AM.

  3. #3
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    Originally posted by carlton


    Any idea why .net would lag .org? Kind of interesting too that 'Cleveland.com' would be greater than 'California.com' given the difference in their relative populations. The non-extension versions reflect what one would expect.
    would say it is mainly a ruboff from non profit/charities using KeywordCity.org type names, also .org and .gov is confused a bit so might be some people looking for govt sites.

    Originally posted by Speculator


    Secondly, as I noted before quite some while ago, significant natural type-ins only exist for .com, and even that (unless there's marketing like that for LasVegas.com) is a small portion of the total traffic to the site, as indicated by the ratio of OVT numbers with and without extension. And, this is the reason, I don't believe in "bleed" being a deterrant to developing decent names in new tlds.
    you've missed the point, the problem is lost traffic once a name has been developed, not "loss of natural type ins". The only time bleed won't be a factor is when 100% of your marketing is done via s/e's or links and you aren't getting any repeat visitors - "one hit wonder" type sites that nobody would ever want to revisit. Once someone wants to come back or hears about your site from outside search engines/links traffic will be lost.

  4. #4
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    Originally posted by snoopy
    .
    you've missed the point, the problem is lost traffic once a name has been developed, not "loss of natural type ins". The only time bleed won't be a factor is when 100% of your marketing is done via s/e's or links and you aren't getting any repeat visitors - "one hit wonder" type sites that nobody would ever want to revisit. Once someone wants to come back or hears about your site from outside search engines/links traffic will be lost.
    You've missed a larger point Snoopy, Once a website is developed in .Net ,.Ws .anything other then .com and generating hundreds and thosands of visitors everyday .. the loss (bleed) of a handful of people to the .com each day is insignificant to owners of the .NET , .WS , .anything..

    And the ONLY people from the .com perspective that care about getting a little bleed traffic are the crumb pickers..

    People/Business that are actually developing in .com could care less that they might get a few visitors from .Net ,.WS or anything else..(just as the owners generting a lot of traffic from their .net , .WS etc care about lossing a few people to bleed)
    They arent building their business on bleed traffic .. ..only domainers with huge inventories pay much attention..because that is their business and that's fine but dont assume Bleed means or matters at all to anyone seriousely developing anymore

    ..

    Bottom line ..Bleed is an old worn out arguement and means absolutely nothing to anyone. It's like meeting an Old buddy every few years and listening to the same old stories over and over again..you want to tell your buddy it's time get a life and move on .. but you just cant break his little dream of how he see's life



  5. #5
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    Originally posted by bidawinner
    You've missed a larger point Snoopy, Once a website is developed in .Net ,.Ws .anything other then .com and generating hundreds and thosands of visitors everyday .. the loss (bleed) of a handful of people to the .com each day is insignificant to owners of the .NET , .WS , .anything..

    It isn't simply a handful of visitors per day, as the .ws/.biz/.info site gets larger so will the numbers of people going to the wrong site.

    How much traffic do you think mta.com receives from people confusing it wil mta.info? The overture score is currently 11459 for mta.com (and has been around that kind of level for a long time), so probably 3000-4000 visitors going to the wrong site every day.

  6. #6
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    Originally posted by bidawinner
    You've missed a larger point Snoopy, Once a website is developed in .Net ,.Ws .anything other then .com and generating hundreds and thosands of visitors everyday .. the loss (bleed) of a handful of people to the .com each day is insignificant to owners of the .NET , .WS , .anything..
    Until Cheney tell them it is dot com instead of dot org by mistake.
    http://money.cnn.com/2004/10/06/tech.../cheney_soros/

  7. #7
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    Originally posted by snoopy
    It isn't simply a handful of visitors per day, as the .ws/.biz/.info site gets larger so will the numbers of people going to the wrong site.

    How much traffic do you think mta.com receives from people confusing it wil mta.info? The overture score is currently 11459 for mta.com (and has been around that kind of level for a long time), so probably 3000-4000 visitors going to the wrong site every day.
    But they dont "lose" that traffic.. how do you get 3000 bleed visitors a day lost going to the .com and thinking arent smart enough to find directions http://google.com

    http://www.google.as/search?hl=en&q=...hority&spell=1

    So out of those 3000 lost .. I'd think at least 95% will actually be able to perform a basic search and find the New York Metropolitan Authority at eithe rthe .US or the .Info..and hell a few people will bleed to the .com and decide to to take up modeling ..whoopie

    So the bottom line is the MTA didnt really lose any visitors a day and the .US and .Info gained new visitors

    nobody cares about losing a few visitors..that goes back to the Downtown retailers mentality about the new fangled Shopping Malls in the 1960'sand 1970's.. You actually had retailers that refused to move to the mall because they might lose (bleed) customers to their competitors ..

  8. #8
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    As far as that goes .. it looks like there are literally dozens of MTA's (Metropolitian Transit Authorities around the US)

    New York
    Los Angeles
    Kansas City
    Waterloo Ia
    MaryLand
    Nashville
    Austin Texas
    Topeka Kansas

    etc....

    You want to talk about BLEED with MTA.. even if New York owned MTA.com look at all the traffic BLEED away from MTA.com to the search engines because those that live in Kansas Ciy didnt get MTA of KC , Maryland type-in people didnt get the MaryLand MTA and the Type-in people in Los Angeles didnt get the LA MTA ..

    look at that .com bleed !

    Thousands leaving MTA.com everyday to the search engines because MTA.com didnt deliver ...


    Where are those thousand of Bleed visitors going?

    to .US , .Info and yes to other .coms

    Thats thousands of people everyday that may never "type-in" again..because "Type-in" failed to deliver and was just a waste of time ..next time they'll head straight to the search engines

  9. #9
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    I agree with bidawinner's argument. However if I had the .COM I'd consider that bleed in deciding if I wanted to spoof an adjacent TLD and thus make people think they came to the right place. You can't do that with another TLD and that is part of the power of .COM.

    Ie, you can use a .COM to steal adjacent TLD traffic but not the other way around.

    I'd also argue that a lot of people are use to websites being transitory and not finding what you expect, at the URL you thought was right, will lead to many thinking the site just is not there anymore. So there is no point to doing an SE search. Of course I can also flip that reality to say that those that do say to themselves "something is wrong here" will us the SE, learn about the new TLDS, and will start becoming aware that the world is not just .COM.
    Last edited by ILikeInfo; 12-27-2004 at 12:03 PM.

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by bidawinner

    So out of those 3000 lost .. I'd think at least 95% will actually be able to perform a basic search and find the New York Metropolitan Authority at eithe rthe .US or the .Info..and hell a few people will bleed to the .com and decide to to take up modeling ..whoopie

    Alot of these people won't be very net savvy, I doubt that 95% will find the correct site quickly.

    However the main issue isn't whether people can eventually find the site but the fact that they have been taken somewhere else first, in most instances of tld confusion they'll land at a site that directly competes with the .info/.net/.biz etc - ie a % of sales will be lost.

  11. #11
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    "Certain statements contained in this website, and the documents included herein, including statements which may contain words such as "could","should", "expect", "believe", "will" and similar expressions and statements relating to matters that are not historical facts are forwarding-looking statements including, but not limited to, statements as to: the popularity of new TLDs, the viability of new TLDs; the attention paid to new TLDs by search engines; the interest paid to new TLDs by consumers; and other such matters."

    ~ Nexus

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by ILikeInfo

    Ie, you can use a .COM to steal adjacent TLD traffic but not the other way around.


    I'd agree with that but as with my original arguement ..most companies arent building their companies on a foundation theft of traffic ..


    I'd also argue that a lot of people are use to websites being transitory and not finding what you expect, at the URL you thought was right, will lead to many thinking the site just is not there anymore. So there is no point to doing an SE search.
    I'd totally disagree with that..that would mean anyone going to MTA.com thinking that the New York Transit authority would be there and instead find a talent agency ...just gives up !

    Come on Ilikeinfo you dont really believe that do you ?

    Umm nah... everyone knows how to use a search engine and that's where they will find the New York transit .

  13. #13
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    Originally posted by ILikeInfo

    However if I had the .COM I'd consider that bleed in deciding if I wanted to spoof an adjacent TLD and thus make people think they came to the right place. You can't do that with another TLD and that is part of the power of .COM.

    Ie, you can use a .COM to steal adjacent TLD traffic but not the other way around.

    I think it is more than people trying to steal traffic, say for example you hear of a site books.info from a friend, and end up typing in books.com instead which takes you to barnes and noble. Even if the person knows they didn't arrive at the correct site there is still a reasonable chance of B&N getting a sale out of it.

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by snoopy
    However the main issue isn't whether people can eventually find the site but the fact that they have been taken somewhere else first, in most instances of tld confusion they'll land at a site that directly competes with the .info/.net/.biz etc - ie a % of sales will be lost.
    But yes snoopy that IS the issue for the Business that builds on any domain..that IS the point..

    Will my potential cutomers be able to find me..

    If I am in the SE I know they will be able too..if I am counting on just a type-in .com domain traffic then I would miss Most of my potential customers..

  15. #15
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    Originally posted by snoopy
    I think it is more than people trying to steal traffic, say for example you hear of a site books.info from a friend, and end up typing in books.com instead which takes you to barnes and noble. Even if the person knows they didn't arrive at the correct site there is still a reasonable chance of B&N getting a sale out of it.
    Wow..well in that case you would lose that sale..

    You know I was going to pick me up a new John Deere snow blower the other day at the John Deere outlet and on the way I drove Toro shop that had snowblowers out front so I pulled in to take a quick look at ended upbuyinmg a Toro snowblower instead..

    JD lost a sale..man did JD ever screw up by not owning that property also !

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