"Say goodbye to the .tv domain extension"

[fizz]

Originally posted by Domo Sapiens
Cheers for your honesty and common sense.

Ditto millerscrossin.

[snoopy]

Originally posted by millerscrossin
For me, the final straw was the recent rick latona auction about six weeks ago, where he had managed to talk down the premiums on many keyword generics from absolutely ridiculous yearly fees to "less ridiculous" yearly fees....

Even the one area of .tv that had received the most hype - geos, names such as germany and spain were in the live auction and did not receive one bid, nor did any other premium .tv

Including Thailand.TV in the silent auction.Nada..

The one name that sold was a non premium, realityshows.tv, for around 1.5k or there abouts..

All those premiums very badly overpriced.

eg,

Help.tv $37,500 res $1000 renewal
Home.tv $90,000 res $1500 renewal
Traffic.tv $25,000 res $750 renewal

Those are just the first three from the list rather than any names in particular.

I would think either they need to be sold either,

-With a (realistic) reserve and normal annual fees.

OR

-With no reserve and premium renewals.

....but not both, it may sound simplistic but the names really does need to be "worth" the asking price.

Maybe help.tv could be sold if the reserve was $2k with a $30 renewal, buy not $37k and a $1000 renewal, that pricing just makes no sense for anybody except Verisign, the auction was always going to a black eye for the extension.

What Verisign is trying with that auction is very similar to what domainers are expecting buyers to do when they reg a premium names and then expect a buy to come along who will pay a premium price on top of very high renewals. Those buyers rarely exist and generally the "enduser" ends out being the domainer - they've paid a "retail" price.

Originally posted by millerscrossin
Admittedly, there were no end users at the auction, but that did not stop a market for alot of other ext. i think job.us went for 100k...

There isn't ever likely to be endusers going on mass to auctions, maybe the occasional one but usually these people want specific names at specific times. For the people relying on endusers they'll need really good name picking skills and low holding costs. Even the very best like buydomains only sell 1% of inventory a year so it just doesn't work with less than popular extensions that have very high holding costs.

Originally posted by millerscrossin
As for development, despite all the hype on geos, nothing has been developed, despite the huge annual renewal fees on some of the names, 3k and 5k, and the huge amount of money to buy names off other members for low 5 figures..

It is not really a surprise, domainers and notorious for buying domains and doing nothing with them, despite the best of development intentions. We tell each other how much a domain could be worth if developed and how it is so easy and at the end of the day most of us have never developed anything substantial ourselves, it is a load of BS. Once reality sinks in the development generally resolves around lousy content and some adsense iads, or it stays as a park page, or the name gets resold. The times when real, successful development takes place by a domainer is some fraction of 1%.

Originally posted by millerscrossin
Development of any site to create value for people to come back to your site or to even hear of u in the first placde, takes more than some twitter posts, a news release and some Adword campaigns.
'
I'll stick to domaining thank you very much!

Agree, it is a very hard slog. I think you are making the right move.

[safesys]

They will.... and the reason is the new breed of domainer will be trying to add extra value to the domain to get it sold. That's how markets work.

that doesn't make any sense.

the main motivator behind aftermarket sales is where the company is either already known as the term they want to acquire as a domain name or where it's a top descriptive term for the market they want to target.

In both cases, there is no logical reason for the twitter or facebook account to be of any relevance to the domain value - the availability of either has no bearing on what is the best domain name to match their existing brand or key descriptive term.

The only area where it might be something a buyer would consider is where they're looking at creating a coined/fanciful brand - but then they have the luxury of choice.

I thought most savvy domainers had long since realised that domainers merely offering something (supply) has virtually zero impact on end user demand. Domaining is a demand led market.

[izopod]

Originally posted by snoopy
I don't think the economics are good for sites that personally. Collegehumor.com sold on a valuation of $40million but how many other significant sales have their been in humor categories? Where is the obvious monetization strategy in small humor sites?

You may ask yourself: Does the internet need another "College Humor" site? My thought is with .tv names there is room for them, especially if they are viral in nature. My thought with non-com's are such that natural traffic will not flow in great numbers, so the only other method to get traffic would be through viral means. Sure you could pay for traffic but that is sketchy at best.

To me viral = Content that is either humorous or odd in nature.

Is this a sound business model? Not really, but if you are one of the lucky ones to have something off your site hit over a million views, there is a way to monetize that. No secret bullet here, rather sometimes blind luck, which can happen.

[izopod]

Originally posted by safesys
Domaining is a demand led market.

Agreed, but when you are in a supply rich market which we're in, how do you differentiate yourself from the next guy? By adding extra value to what you are selling.

I guess I am speaking to the "middle of the road" domainer.

Your generic domain seller like Rick Latonia doesn't need the twitter name or facebook name to go with domains he is selling. The value of the domains he sells are already built in. His buyer's know that.

[safesys]

Agreed, but when you are in a supply rich market which we're in, how do you differentiate yourself from the next guy? By adding extra value to what you are selling.

it's only extra value if there is demand for it - otherwise it's just more "supply". If that additional social networking element is required to get interest then it suggests the actual domain names are very weak.

[izopod]

Originally posted by safesys
it's only extra value if there is demand for it - otherwise it's just more "supply". If that additional social networking element is required to get interest then it suggests the actual domain names are very weak.

LOL. Safeys. You still have it.

To the degree you could add any value to a domain name sale where the cost to you is $0, I think we'd all agree that isn't a bad thing.

Right now, I could offer a end user, not only a domain name, but one where it has "social presence".

The landscape is changing. As I offer these "extras" in my domain sales, so too will others to add value to their domain sales. As this happens, end users will come to expect it. I'm not saying that I will actually do this, but I used myself as an example. I could easily do it.

In the end: Would you rather have just a "Shovel" or would you want a "Shovel that has additional features"

Domaining will change....

[AssociatedForums]

Originally posted by millerscrossin
For me, the final straw was the recent rick latona auction about six weeks ago, where he had managed to talk down the premiums on many keyword generics from absolutely ridiculous yearly fees to "less ridiculous" yearly fees....

Even the one area of .tv that had received the most hype - geos, names such as germany and spain were in the live auction and did not receive one bid, nor did any other premium .tv

Including Thailand.TV in the silent auction.Nada..

The one name that sold was a non premium, realityshows.tv, for around 1.5k or there abouts..

Admittedly, there were no end users at the auction, but that did not stop a market for alot of other ext. i think job.us went for 100k...

Everyone heavily invested in .tv had a bad evening that night im sure.

I lliquidated my final best names, and will let the rest drop with a few exceptions. i will renew them for max three years more and wait on an end user offer..if nothing happens, i drop the lot

As for development, despite all the hype on geos, nothing has been developed, despite the huge annual renewal fees on some of the names, 3k and 5k, and the huge amount of money to buy names off other members for low 5 figures..

I decided to take the plunge with babyboomers.tv. We managed to get around 25 direct advertisers - we would shoot a commercial of local business owners, but everyone, from CEO (especially CEO) to content manager, to sales guys, to editor - NONE had experience in running an internet site and including myself, were out of our depth..and i wasnt prepared to make the normal you tube like clone and call that a devved site...so basically the two investors in babyboomers.tv blew xxx,xxx and unfortunately have nothing to show for it..

Development of any site to create value for people to come back to your site or to even hear of u in the first placde, takes more than some twitter posts, a news release and some Adword campaigns.
'
I'll stick to domaining thank you very much!

Hey welcome to DS James !

and thanks for sharing your thoughts ... I dropped a few .TVs and kept some non-premiums that fit the extension ... its all good

[izopod]

One last comment in regards to Twitter or Facebook. How many businesses (end-users) have you seen lately where they have actively marketed they are on Twitter or Facebook? I personally have seen lots. It almost reminds me of 1998, when you had begun to see businesses market their "www" address in print advertisements.

So let's say company X, wants, "Textbacks.com"---A domain I own. Let's say "textbacks" is already taken on Twitter and/or Facebook. Sure, they could go register, txtbacks, but you know as well as I do, if they are able to purchase "Textbacks.com" from you with "Textbacks" included on a major social platform--that is nirvana.

If you don't see the need to have the user name with your domain name, I would at least advise you to start selling your domain names now, "Pre-2010"


And yes, you can "quote" me on this...

[safesys]

In the end: Would you rather have just a "Shovel" or would you want a "Shovel that has additional features"

you see, this is the core problem - you're trying to sell a shovel to someone who doesn't particularly want or need a shovel and are trying to generate interest in the shovel with the extras.

the trick is to pick names people actually want on their own merit - ie common generic/descriptive terms in tld's people want to own them in.

mainstream domaining won't change - it will always pander to demand driven by direct association. that demand for the best suited domains isn't affected by social networking, even though a small percentage of companies do have an interest in social networking - you've added 1+1 and come up with 5.

the only change will be confined to domainers trying to justify their demand-less domains and from those who are desperate to get in on "the next big thing" like every other "next big thing that never was" in domain history.

[safesys]

So let's say company X, wants, "Textbacks.com"---A domain I own. Let's say "textbacks" is already taken on Twitter and/or Facebook. Sure, they could go register, txtbacks, but you know as well as I do, if they are able to purchase "Textbacks.com" with "Textbacks" on a major social platform.

If you don't see the need to have the user name with your domain name, I would at least advise you to start selling your domain names now, "Pre-2010"

if you're playing the example game, let's be realistic.

Say there is a company called Widgets, inc that sells "thingies".

the best possible domain for them is likely widgets.com and the best twitter/facebook name is "widgets". neither changes subject to the availability of the other - it it driven by their company name.

likewise if they went for a descriptive, thingies.com would be the best domain - but they may still want to use their actualy company name for their twitter account.

this is what I meant about trying to link disparate things.

it only becomes a real concern if a company is at the stage where they can pick and choose their trading name so that they can get the best of everything off the bat. but in that scenario the choice itself is kryptonite to the domainer trying to sell a package.

[AssociatedForums]

Originally posted by izopod
One last comment in regards to Twitter or Facebook. How many businesses (end-users) have you seen lately where they have actively marketed they are on Twitter or Facebook? I personally have seen lots. It almost reminds me of 1998, when you had begun to see businesses market their "www" address in print advertisements.

So let's say company X, wants, "Textbacks.com"---A domain I own. Let's say "textbacks" is already taken on Twitter and/or Facebook. Sure, they could go register, txtbacks, but you know as well as I do, if they are able to purchase "Textbacks.com" from you with "Textbacks" included on a major social platform--that is nirvana.

If you don't see the need to have the user name with your domain name, I would at least advise you to start selling your domain names now, "Pre-2010"


And yes, you can "quote" me on this...

Gregory you are making very valid points ...

I wouldn't go so far are saying
to start selling your domains now ...

when you see Facebook.com/CNN being promoted while watching CNN, domainers should take notice ... the next thing we may see is com/ disappear

[safesys]

when you see Facebook.com/CNN while watching CNN domainers should take notice ... the next thing we may see is com/ disappear

yeah, they have a facebook page so they don't need that pesky cnn.com site of theirs - it's not like that gets any traffic anyways...

[Domo Sapiens]

It's a losing proposition to carry domains that have a 500,1000, even $5000 yearly renewal and for the most part " zero to none interest " you keep them for a couple of years and it adds up "you are up the creek" , by the time you get a buyer you are already so deep in red you can't think straight (many sell below registration cost out of desperation ) ...

In my case and many others speculators once you register a Premium .tv it becomes a "race against time" to sell it before next renewal date in other words the name of the game is to find somebody "dumber than you"... it feels like you have a perishable commodity.

What kind of a business model is that?

[snoopy]

Originally posted by izopod
Is this a sound business model? Not really, but if you are one of the lucky ones to have something off your site hit over a million views, there is a way to monetize that. No secret bullet here, rather sometimes blind luck, which can happen.

Well at least you agree that it is not a sound business model.